Nissan Call # 15 ticket number 713-XXXX

This call was not one of my more shining moments.  In fact, I become so enraged that I was actually foaming at the mouth.  This may be the angriest that I have been in my entire lifetime.  In 33 (nearly 34) years, I have NEVER been so angry that I foamed at the mouth.  At one point, it was actually difficult to talk there was so much.

As a result, I don't remember too much of this conversation.  I only remember the point at which I completely lost it.

I received a phone call @ 6:19pm.

The call lasted 42min:59sec.

Representative:  Lindsay Stevens  877-664-2738 option 4 then ext. 457271

Lindsay was asked to take on my file from Rebecca as a point of escalation.  She had also spoken with Helena about the file.

At the very beginning of this conversation, Lindsay stated that after reviewing the file Nissan didn't feel that it had an obligation to help me out.  And then she started talking... I honestly have no recollection of what she said next because this is the point where I totally lost it.  I kept trying to interrupt her because she made the statement that because I had the catalytic converters replaced by non-Nissan mechanic and they failed that they would not replace the engine.  I kept trying to interrupt over and over again, but she just kept talking and was completely un-phased by my speaking.

I was like SHE HAS ME ON MUTE!!

I was on my cell phone (a droid) which has a touch screen.  At some point my face (which was VERY warm) must've activated the mute button on the touch screen.  It was ME who muted ME, not her.   So, it took me a few minutes to regroup.  I took myself off of mute and said, can I interrupt?

And then I started shouting about how it's been 5 weeks, those catalytic converters were replaced in an attempt to try to fix the ones that were original to the car and had broken up and shot into the engine.  That the converters currently on the car had only 100 miles on them and that the car was already messed up before they were put on. That THESE converters WERE NOT YET RUINED!! (Unless of course the 1/2 tank of gas and 2qts of oil that the engine blew through them ruined them.) And how could they not stand behind their products.  This problem was a result of their faulty design and particles from the broken up pre-cats were breaking up and blowing back into the engine causing damage to the piston rings, poor compression, and oil consumption and subsequently a blown engine.  I yelled about  how I could send them pages and pages and pages of HUNDREDS of complaints all classically illustrating the problems that I have had with this car and that they DO IN FACT replace engines that are out of warranty and past 80,000 miles.  I went on like this for awhile.  I told them about this blog, and that if they did not do something to remedy the issue with my car that I WOULD NEVER buy another Nissan again and that I would tell everyone I ever saw to never buy a Nissan.  I told them I contacted the NTSB and filed a complaint because I could have been severely injured when my car stopped operating suddenly.  I told them I would contact my local news, the attorney general, and post on every public forum that I could find about my experience.

At some point she said something that I interpreted as "I work with the Nissan Lease department".  And  I was like if you don't fix this, you can forget me leasing anything!!!!

But what she was trying to say, which became clear later when I was able to hear again was that she normally works with the Nissan LEAF customers. So, she was trying to tell me that she wasn't as familiar with this issue as she could be.

Then she told me that she would be in the office tomorrow and would do some more research on my case.  That she would like to escalate it and that she sees that Rebecca had a note in the file that she attempted to contact the Regional Operations Manager, but that there was no note that he ever got back toher.

So, I was like, "Wait.  At the beginning of this call, you told me Nissan wasn't willing to help with this case.  But now you're telling me there was never any answer given by the regional operations manager.??"

So, she said that based on the information she had at that time that they would be denying the claim.  But more information came to light during our phone conversation and with my permission she would like to take over my file and escalate it.  OBVIOUSLY, I agreed.  And I recognize that these representatives have almost CERTAINLY taken ASLAN training because we had to take it at work.  And I kind of resented the fact that she was able to charm me like a snake... part of it was that I felt a little guilty for flipping out... and the other part is that she is actually quite excellent at what she does.  Kudos to her.  I was really crabby. Dare I say, I was a downright foaming at the mouth bitch?

We agreed that I would pull the paperwork that I could find together and I would scan and email it to her on Monday.  And she promised that she would call me on Monday. She offered to call tomorrow, but I'm going to be Spinning Babies at a doula training and likely she wouldn't know much before then anyway.


I also started to cry.  I explained that I just paid off this car.  That I purchased a larger car with the expectation that I would have this car when I started my family.  I am standing on the precipice of doing just that and this car is dead.  I recently had to withdraw 401k funds to pay down debt and that I was not in a position to be buying another car.  I also should not HAVE to be buying another yet!  How can they do this to people when Nissan knows that this is a problem.

I then pointed out that there was a recall on the car.  Her records show that my car has no recalls on that VIN.  I said, but CLEARLY if my car is having this problem, Nissan obviously has not isolated all of the cars with the problem! 



She tried politely to interrupt and I really couldn't be stopped.  I absolutely flipped my lid.

I did eventually get a grip.

We clarified some things in the file -- particularly the fact that it was the OTHER ORIGINAL converters that were the problem, not the new OEM purchased from the dealer - newly installed by my local mechanic converters.

She asked if I sent any further documentation to Rebecca about my case. I asked what she was looking for.  I hadn't sent anything.  Basically they are looking for receipts and things for repairs showing I was trying to fix the problem and to document when it started since my work was never done at the dealer.

She was going to give me a fax number, but I requested email since it's easier for me to scan and email them.  I promised her that I would NOT give out her email address.  So, I'm not posting it here, but I do have it.  Apparently, they are not allowed to correspond externally via email, so she will not be able to send me information or case updates that way anyway.  She said that there are only 5 people in her group and that she will be easy to reach.

I was able to find some paperwork, there is probably more in the glovebox of the car, but it is has been hanging out with the other lemons at the Nissan dealership for the last 5 weeks, so I can't exactly check.

Here's what I've found so far:

I know that I first started having problems in September 9, 2008.  The key will be to see if I can find that paperwork.

However, I have the following:

April 28, 2009
Mileage: 67,216
Car had been driving very hard and stalled once.  But when I drove it would shudder and shake like crazy.  Service Engine Light Came on

Replace oil and Filter
Cylinder #2 Misfire - Diagnosed and Replaced coil
Cleaned Spark plugs
K-100 Fuel Additive

Rear Shocks Replaced

The car seemed better when I picked it up, but the next day the service engine light came on briefly, but then went out again.  The car wasn't running as hard as it had been when I first brought it for service.  However, the problem was never truly fixed.  And thus began the trial and error of trying to figure out what the light and codes meant.

June 18, 2010

Mileage from the gas fill up closest to this date:

Purchased OEM parts spark plugs and brake pads.

Replaced spark plugs myself and had the brake pads installed at local mechanic.

July 1, 2010
mileage: 83,189
Change oil, filter, check all fluids, and tire pressure
check for codes:  cylinder 1 misfire
Replace front and rear disc brakes pads and rotors, clean and lube all caliper pins and slides


March 29, 2011 (car picked up on this day, car died on 3/24/11)
mileage: 92,051

check car, will not run
replace crank position sensor and reset computer

replace upstream catalytic converter
replace downstream catalytic converter
change oil and filter, check all fluids, and tire pressure

I'll report back as I find more receipts.

Nissan Call # 14 ticket number 713-XXXX

800-343-6913

call length: 02min:41sec
Representative:  John

Me:  May I speak with Helena right now?

John:  Do you have a file number or extension?

Me: I don't have the extension, but I have a file number 713-xxxx

John:  Just a moment and I'll see if I can locate her.  **puts me on hold**
**back on line** I'm sorry, Helena is in a meeting.  Can I have her give you a call back?

Me:  Yes, please let her know I would appreciate a call back tonight.

John: Will do.

Me: Thanks.

Nissan Call # 13 ticket number 713-XXXX

Are you kidding me!?!?  I am so heated right now.

1-800-343-6913
Spoke with representative Jeanine - call time 6min:49sec
No significant hold time today.  I was put on hold once while Jeanine conferred with another rep about how they were to handle Rebecca's cases.

She took my file number and looked at the case.  She saw that Rebecca is still awaiting information.  However, Rebecca is unavailable today because she is in training for a new job IN ANOTHER DEPARTMENT.

Me: I spoke to Rebecca last week and she told me that she was hoping to have an answer by Tuesday of this week.  She never mentioned to me that she was changing jobs!

Jeanine: Well, there were 4 or 5 representatives that were pulled about a half a day before it was to happen and they were notified that they would be training for positions in different departments.  So, she didn't know about it until it was happening.

Me: I've left 2 messages this week and no one has gotten back to me.

Jeanine: Well what we have been doing for Rebecca's calls is taking the information and forwarding it to her supervisor.  It is also my understanding that anything that Rebecca has received has also been forwarded by her to the supervisor. 

Me:  What is the supervisor's name?

Jeanine:  Helena

Me:  What is her extension please?

Jeanine:  She doesn't really have one.

Me:  She has NO extension?

Jeanine: Well, we don't really give them out.  We have the supervisors call the customer's back.  We're not really allowed to give them out.

Me: I see.  I haven't heard from Helena and I've left two voice mail messages for Rebecca.  There has been no update to my file this week.  I have been told several times already that Nissan would have an answer on a certain day and it hasn't happened.  You have had my file for FIVE WEEKS.  I have been trying to be patient and understanding because I would like for you to rule in my favor, but I am really starting to lose my patience.  I have TWO jobs -- one of which is a birth doula -- which means I need to make it to a birth ON TIME.  Do you have any idea how difficult it is to borrow a car for two jobs? I can't afford to get a rental.  If you were even helping me with a rental, I'd be able to be even more patient. I can't afford a rental at $300.00 a week!  And now after all of this time, it sounds like no one is even working on my file!

Jeanine:  I totally understand where you're coming from. I can assure you that progress won't be lost -- there are 8 pages of notes in your file. What I can do is take your information and send an email to Helena and ask her to contact you before the end of business tomorrow.

Me:  Isn't tomorrow Saturday?  Is she working tomorrow??

Jeanine: Oh, I apologize, you're right. 

Me:  I've already left multiple messages and no one has returned my call yet.

Jeanine:  Well, Helena may be working a bit later this evening.  I can send her a message and try to find her on the floor and ask that she call you back tonight.

Me:  That would be great. I just really need to get resolution on this soon. 

Jeanine: I understand m'am.  I will send her a message asking her to give you a call back.

Me:  I have been paying car insurance for 5 weeks on a car that I cannot drive. The CAR DOES NOT MOVE.  I have had NO CAR for 5 WEEKS!  I'm really getting anxious about this.

Jeanine: I'll send Helena a message right now.



I am POSITIVELY FUMING right now.  In fact, I'm calling back and insisting on talking to Helena now.

Nissan Call # 12 ticket number 713-XXXX

1-800-343-6913

Hold time: 7min:08sec

Total call time: 9min:02sec


This representative transferred me directly to Rebecca's voice mail once I stated I had already left a message.  I asked her to please follow up with an internal message to have Rebecca call me.

I left another voice mail asking Rebecca to call me back.

Nissan Call # 11 ticket number 713-XXXX

Called into the call center 800-343-6913

I should note that while the representatives give you an extension to reach them, you are required to sit on hold until someone else picks up the phone.  There is no way to enter the extension so that you can simply leave a voice mail for your regional representative.

This morning, I was on the phone for a total of 32min:05 seconds.  I was on hold for approximately 28 minutes. Unacceptable!!!!

I did not catch the representative's name since I was walking into work and it was very windy.  However, she looked in the file and saw that Rebecca was my representative and that she was waiting for additional information.  She offered to send Rebecca an internal message to call me since Rebecca was in a meeting.  She also transferred me to Rebecca's voicemail where I left yet another message.

This was my breaking point.  I decided after 11 phone calls, and now nearly 5 weeks of playing with Nissan of North America, that I would publish all of the blog posts that I've been holding.  Today was the "go live" date.

I didn't mention this before, but in addition to being a doula, I also have a 40 hr a week job.  I have been having to find rides and borrow cars to get to work and to births.  Since, this all started, I have had two VERY LONG (over 24 hours) births.  The people allowing me to use their vehicles do this and they have NO IDEA how long they will be without their own cars.  I am very lucky they are in my life, but their patience is wearing thin. It shouldn't have to be like this.  I'm starting to think that perhaps I shouldn't have been so smug.. and that perhaps I should've bought that Camry.  At least they always run... (even they don't always stop. <ahem>)

I JUST paid this Altima off.  I have had it for 4.5 years and for roughly 55k miles. I paid $17,000.00 for this thing. IT. SHOULD. NOT.YET.BE.DEAD.

If Nissan doesn't make this right, I will NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE AGAIN.  And I will tell EVERYONE that I know, to never buy a Nissan.

Btw, we recently called about a recall on the 2003 Maxima in our household -- this was for the crank position sensor recall.  The VIN falls smack in the middle of the recall and yet Nissan claims the car isn't included in it.  I think I've heard this story before...

Nissan Call # 10 ticket number 713-XXXX

Left a voice mail for Rebecca 800-343-6913 ext 457247

I stated that I have been waiting for an answer from Nissan for 4 weeks and have been without a vehicle for 5 weeks.  I expressed that I was doing my best to be patient, but that I would really appreciate a call back.

Nissan Call # 9 ticket number 713-XXXX

Rebecca returned my call.  The call lasted 3min:04sec.
800-343-6913 ext 457247

She is awaiting additional information from a person who is at a higher technical level than she is.  She stated that she was doing her best to make sure they are exploring all avenues since my mileage is high at 91,000 and is not in Warranty period.  This person is out of the office until Monday 4-25-2011.  She is hoping to have more information for me by Tuesday 4-26-2011.  Restated that she apologizes for the long wait time and is doing her best to build a strong case since the mileage is so high.

Nissan Call # 8 ticket number 713-XXXX

4-21-2011 3:28pm

Called 800-343-6913 and spoke to Julie for 6min:56sec


We had a bad connection.  She sent an internal message to Rebecca requesting that she contact me.  She also transferred me to Rebecca's voicemail.  I left another message.

Nissan Call # 7 ticket number 713-XXXX

4-20-11 3:46pm

I spoke for 7 minutes with Veronica.  I was on hold for 5min29sec total call time was exactly 12:00. 

She checked the file and saw Rebecca is waiting for some information.  Said she would send her an email to please call me.  Then, I mentioned difficulty with being without a car because of births... and she got excited about me being a doula and said she wanted to do that, but got delayed with kids, etc.  She apologized for my engine troubles but was glad she got to speak with me. I encouraged her to call me if she had questions about becoming a doula.  I hope she calls, I love talking about doula-ing!  (At least something useful would come out of this annoying experience!)

Nissan Call # 6 ticket number 713-XXXX

4-20-11 8:50am

Left voicemail for Rebecca requesting a call back to my cell phone.

Nissan Call # 5 ticket number 713-XXXX

Spoke to Rebecca -- she called me!  She can be reached directly at 1-800-343-6913 ext 457247
Call time: 33:24

I gave her long vehicle history beginning approx. 2 years ago down to the present to explain what was wrong with the vehicle.

I requested a rental while they make a decision -- she said she'd check into it. They are hoping to have a decision about helping with the repair by Monday at the latest.  I expressed the urgency of needing a reliable car since I am a doula and I attend births.

Nissan Call # 4 ticket number 713-XXXX

Spoke to Jaymall -  1-800-647-7261 ext. 47111

10:55am 4min:05sec

Rebecca looked at the file yesterday, but no contact to me was noted.  Since their policy contact time frame requirement hasn't been met, they will need contact me today before end of business.  They are sending internal notification to Rebecca and cc'ing her supervisor.

Nissan Call # 3 ticket number 713-XXXX

Spoke with Kody 10:07am 4-11-11  1-800-647-7261 ext 47240

Requested update from regional from call on 4-6-2011.  Kody will send agent an email internally and ask them to contact me.

Rebecca - so far is the regional rep. that will be calling me.

Kody is noting the file that my phone number has been updated (they had 278-xxxx) and sent the internal email to Rebecca asking her to contact me today.

Nissan Call # 2 ticket number 713-XXXX

4-6-2011 1-800-647-7261 ext 41631 spoke to Astrid

3:12pm 7min:51sec

file # 713-XXXX

They had my phone number incorrect.  I updated my cell phone number.

Told them that the dealer diagnosed the car as needing a new motor.  The motor has poor compression and is eating through oil.  Repair retails for $6,000.00 to replace motor.

Astrid told me that the regional representative would get back to me by the end of business on 4/7/2011.  They would also be contacting the dealership for more information.

They also stated that it will take 1 to 4 weeks to decide what, if anything, they will do for me.

Previous representative gave me the wrong extension.

Nissan Call # 1 ticket number 713-XXXX

1-800-647-7261  ext 457338 name Liezel  (Lee- ZeLL)

3:18pm duration 15:16

Gave VIN
Gave ADDRESS
Gave phone number

Gave email address.


I explained the problem, 2 years of service engine lights, change coils, etc.  with regular local mechanic. Car stalled out thursday 3-24 replaced crank position sensor and both catalytic converters.

Car runs rough -  smoke billowing out of exhaust
Car hesitates then alternately lurches forward
Piston rings gone
Engine using oil

Local mechanic says I need new engine. She instructs me to take it to dealer for diagnosis and gives me file # 713-XXXX.

She then tells me to call back when i have a diagnosis from the dealer.

She's very friendly.

I ask if the rumors online about nissan not helping people with this problem are true,  because my car doesn't fall within the warranty, but has had all the same problems.  I explained that I've read on message boards that they say that Nissan doesn't get back to you, etc. I told her I love nissans and would be so sad if this was my last experience with them.  She said they would be sad too and that they do try to help people.

She also told me that she wasn't sure if Nissan would pay for the diagnosis because car is not in warranty.

I told her I would get the car diagnosed at the dealer and would get back to her once I had a diagnoses.

2011-03-24 18:23

My family LOVES NISSANS.  We have owned several of them :  1992 Nissan Sentra, 1998 Nissan Sentra, 2003 Nissan Maxima SE, and a 2003 Nissan Altima.  In fact, we've encouraged lots of people to purchase Nissans. We could not imagine why people chose to drive less pretty, less zippy, less FUN cars than Nissans.  We were even a bit snobbish about our Nissans. Scoffing to each other, "Why on earth would you buy a Toyota Camry?  They are **so** boring.  So... vanilla. So, grown up and old fart-ish."


When my 1998 Nissan Sentra was totaled due to a rear end collision, I told EVERYONE that I was certain that it saved us from serious injury.  I was hit from behind by a young girl who was not paying attention.  I was stopped at a cross walk to let a pedestrian cross.  The impact was around 35 - 40 mph.  Enough to make the other driver's airbags deploy.  Enough to bend the frame of my car so much that the passenger seat in my car couldn't be moved forward or backward. It popped the trunk open, and prevented the passenger's side doors from being closed properly.  It buckled the area between the passenger side rear door and the trunk.  Enough to ruin things in the trunk. Enough to imprint her license plate number into my bumper.  But we were okay.  We were fine.  We were sore, and had bruises, but we were fine.  I immediately went out and purchased my 2003 Altima.  I never even test drove anything else.

From day 1, I put synthetic oil in the Altima.  (I purchased it pre-owned in October of 2006.)  We had the oil changed regularly.  Everything was fine for the first 2 years or so that I owned it...


Below is my poor car on March 24, 2011 6:23pm.  It stalled suddenly in the middle of a busy intersection.  I was taking off from the light when the car suddenly stopped running.  The person behind me nearly hit me because the car just stopped with no warning.


When I attempted to restart the engine, a cloud of exhaust came into the car and the smell was terrible.  I had to have the car (seen below) towed by AAA to the local mechanic.  The police had to be called because I was in the middle of a major intersection. 

Here are some links detailing simliar experiences to what I have had with this car:

http://www.arfc.org/complaints/2003/nissan/altima/engine_and_engine_cooling/problem.aspx

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0da999/0

http://www.nissanforums.com/l31-2002-2006/135933-2-5s-pre-cat-problems-engine.html

http://www.nissanforums.com/l31-2002-2006/117470-recall-r3007-resurfaces-02-03-altima.html

Search by year, make, and model here:  http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/results.cfm

For approximately two years (starting somewhere around 65k miles), this car has had a service engine light that would go on and off.  Sometimes, the light would conincide with the car lurching while traveling on the highway.  Sometimes, when this lurching occurred, the light would go off if it was already on.  Sometimes the light would blink. Sometimes not.  Sometimes the light would be on for weeks on end.  Sometimes just for a few minutes.  The codes that we had read on the the car were never the same.  We got codes for coils, cylinder misfires (for different cylinders), we got codes for short circuits, we got codes for crank position sensors.  So, we kept trying different things to fix it.  Nothing really ever seemed to make it better or worse.

We had the throttle body cleaned.

We replaced coils.

We tried moving coils around to see if the problem stopped.  (It never stopped.)

We replaced spark plugs.

We called about the crank position sensor recall and were told that despite the fact that the car fell into the range VIN wise, that the car didn't qualify for the recall.

All the while, the car just acted a bit funny and we continued to try to figure out the problem through trial and error.

My car passed inspection with an emissions check in January of this year. Somehow though, something finally "let go" and the car DIED two months later.

We replaced the crank position sensor and the car started!  Though, at this point it was obvious that something was now terribly wrong with the exhaust.  My local mechanic found that the pre-catalytic converter was totally broken up inside and that the catalytic converter behind that one was clogged.  So, we replaced both of the converters.  I picked the car up and it sounded a little different, but I thought that perhaps the converters having had a problem before had made the engine sound funny.  So, I drove the car 20 miles to Providence and back.  It seemed okay, no service engine light, no lurching.  Life seemed good.

I should also state that my mechanic told me 2 years ago, when I first started having problems with the car that I should sell it.  He had several other customers that had these vehicles and that they were consuming large amounts of oil, stalling suddenly, etc.  It has since been proven that the faulty design of the exhaust (the pre-cat's location being so close to the engine) causes the pre-cat to break up and blow back into the engine.

Here is a link to the recall:  

http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/baddad1/2009-05-30_000012_Pages_from_NTB03-070c.pdf

Here is some relevant text from the recall:

"In addition, for 2002-2003 model year Altimas and 2002-2004 model year Sentras, there is a possibility that certain engine operating conditions may cause damage to the pre-catalyst. Material from inside a damaged pre-catalyst could enter the engine and result in increased oil consumption. If the engine oil level is not checked on a periodic basis and drops below the low level, and the driver continues to operate the vehicle ignoring noticeable engine noise, engine damage may occur which could result in a fire."

The next day, I drove the vehicle to work.  The car started LURCHING AND SHUDDERING just as I was about to exit from the highway.  The car continued to shudder and have very poor acceleration.  As I pulled into the parking lot at work, the car stalled into its parking spot.  I tried to restart the car and blue smoke BILLOWED out of the back of the car.  I called my mechanic and he instructed me to bring it in again that night.  I did manage to get the car back home to the mechanic that evening.  However, I took back roads home since I wasn't sure if the car would stall and I didn't' want that to happen on the freeway at rush hour.

The car stalled every time I took my foot off of the gas.  It was boggy and and did not accelerate well at all. 

When I spoke to the mechanic the next day, he told me that the engine was blown, the piston rings were destroyed and the car was consuming massive amounts of oil.  I noticed that I had used a 1/2 tank of gas and 2 quarts of oil in the 100 miles that I drove the car since the repair.

Through all of this, I decided to contact Nissan.  This blog will be a chronicle of my experience with Nissan of North America and my attempt at making them replace my engine and to reimburse me for the cost to replace the Crank Position Sensor and the 2 catalytic converters.  Stay tuned...